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Subject: "Update one year on" First topic | Last topic
LiamSun Jun-04-06 09:54 AM
Member since Nov 24th 2003
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"Update one year on"


          

I thought that it was time to post some pictures and information about the procedure I had with Dr Arvind just over a year ago. As some here may remember, my case caused an amount of controversy. For those not familiar with my case I will briefly recap:
For several years I have been wearing a hairpiece. In July of 2004 I had 750 grafts placed by Dr Woods to create a hairline. I was not planning on replacing the hairpiece as I knew it was unlikely that a transplant would give me the overall density that a hairpiece provides. My intention was to create a hairline that I could wear the hairpiece behind.
After the grafts grew out I realised that the density was not sufficient for me. I discussed options with the hair replacement centre that I attend and decided that I should have more work done in the same area to thicken up the hairline. I asked the owner of the hair replacement centre if he thought I had a reasonable result. He said the transplant was good - the only problem was the density.
I contacted Dr Woods to enquire about the possibility of further work. I received no reply.
I think around January of 2005 I contacted Hairsite for a online consultation with several doctors (Hairsite may be able to provide the month I contacted them). The doctors that responded were Dr Arvind and Dr Cole. (Dr Cole responded quite late and I had already made a decision).
I was particularly interested in Dr Arvind as he did transplants involving leg hair and as I have a very good supply of this I wanted to know if this would be a good option.
I booked an appointment with Dr Arvind for May 2005. The procedure was going to be for 4000 grafts. As the time got nearer I became more nervous of such a large session and after arriving in New Delhi and speaking with Dr Arvind it was decided to go for a smaller session of 1500 leg hair grafts.
The work was done over two days. I remained in India for another 10 days and then returned home.
I did not expect that any information would be put on the forum that would identify the doctor who had done the previous work. I was upset about some of the comments that were made on the forum - it was never my intention to attack Dr Woods. I know that on the forum there were estimates done on the number of grafts that had taken from my first procedure. I have never tried to count myself but I believe that the people who did count thought there were about 500 or so.
I hope that this is sufficient detail for those that are interested in the background.

I am attaching pictures taken this month (May 2006). This is approximately 12 months from the 1500 leg hair grafts I had with Dr Arvind.

The donor site area is now looking all right. I was very worried about it for several months but as time has passed the redness in the site has gone and now there are only some very slight yellowish marks that are not noticeable.


I was expecting to have a greater density after one year. It is hard for me to estimate how many grafts have taken but I have spoken to the owner of the hair replacement centre and he says that there is nothing like 2250 grafts there (This is the total number that have been transplanted to this area). I have recently compared pictures now with those taken about a year ago and visually there is not a great deal of change. Obviously I am disappointed about this, perhaps leg hair was the wrong choice for me. I attach pictures for the forums information.
(I hope I have attched the pictures correctly)

Attachment #1, (jpg file)
Attachment #2, (jpg file)
Attachment #3, (jpg file)
Attachment #4, (jpg file)

  

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Replies to this topic
Subject Author Message Date ID
RE: Update one year on
Jun 04th 2006
1
RE: Update one year on
Jun 04th 2006
2
RE: Update one year on
Jun 04th 2006
3
Dr. Woods
Jun 04th 2006
4
RE: Why?
Jun 04th 2006
5
      RE: Why?
Jun 04th 2006
6
      Before pictures?
Jun 04th 2006
7
      RE: Why?
Jun 04th 2006
8
           RE: Why?
Jun 04th 2006
9
                RE: Why?
Jun 04th 2006
10
                     RE: Why?
Jun 05th 2006
13
RE: Update one year on
Jun 05th 2006
11
RE: Update one year on
Jun 05th 2006
12
RE: Update one year on
Jun 05th 2006
14
      Hairsite
Jun 05th 2006
15
           RE: Hairsite
Jun 06th 2006
17
RE: Update one year on
Jun 05th 2006
16
RE: Update one year on
Jun 06th 2006
18
      RE: Update one year on
Jun 07th 2006
19
           RE: Update one year on
Jun 07th 2006
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                RE: Update one year on
Jun 07th 2006
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                     RE: Update one year on
Jun 07th 2006
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                     RE: Update one year on
Jun 08th 2006
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                          RE: Update one year on
Jun 08th 2006
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                               Dr. Woods...
Jun 09th 2006
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                                    RE: Dr. Woods...
Jun 09th 2006
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                                         RE: Dr. Woods...
Jun 10th 2006
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                                              RE: Dr. Woods...
Jun 10th 2006
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                                                   RE: Dr. Woods...
Jun 10th 2006
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                                                        RE: Dr. Woods...
Jun 10th 2006
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                                                             RE: Dr. Woods...
Jun 10th 2006
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                                                                  RE: Dr. Woods...
Jun 10th 2006
36
Comparative pictures
Jun 07th 2006
20
RE: Comparative pictures
Jun 07th 2006
21
      RE: Comparative pictures
Jun 07th 2006
22
           I think hairdar is a disguise for a regular poster...
Jun 11th 2006
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                RE: I think hairdar is a disguise for a regular po...
Jun 11th 2006
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                     RE: Updates
Jun 17th 2006
39

SkywalkerSun Jun-04-06 01:48 PM
Member since Jan 20th 2003
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#1. "RE: Update one year on"
In response to Reply # 0


          


Liam,
I think these are the pictures after the first HT? If you now have 2250 grafts all 1 year out then I would like to see those pictures please.

Thanks.

______________________________________________________________________________________

If you disagree with my opinion I do not mind - I am not paid to post here and I am not a missionary.

  

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DuckSun Jun-04-06 04:03 PM
Member since Dec 19th 2003
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#2. "RE: Update one year on"
In response to Reply # 1


          

Yes these look like the photos after the Woods procedure.

  

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educobianSun Jun-04-06 05:27 PM
Member since Aug 09th 2003
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#3. "RE: Update one year on"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

Hello,

I donīt understand how you were for a mere 1500 grafts. In your case I think you would need many thousands to give a minimum coverage in part of the scalp.

Haisloss really sucks.

  

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SunjamSun Jun-04-06 07:41 PM
Member since Feb 12th 2004
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#4. "Dr. Woods"
In response to Reply # 0
Sun Jun-04-06 08:42 PM by Sunjam

          

I'm just curious why you'd go with leg hairs? You must have available donor remaining on the scalp after the Woods HT ?. BHT is the last resort, not an alternative...I'm also suprised that woods wouldn't get back to you. If this is true, I'd like to hear his side. We spend a lot of money on HT's the least we deserve is a call returned...Have you givin Dr Woods permission to speak on the matter?..Having said that, I'm not certain how much more yield you could expect from such a small procedure. Hard to say with a few pics. It's very easy to get pics onto your comp these days, so if it'll help your story.....

What does Dr Arvind have to say about the possible low yield? As of now, we must be able to come up with a means to find the average growth percentage for BHT and it's variance between the donor areas....Good thing you reduced the amount eh.

Can you please label your pics.

Sun

  

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temboSun Jun-04-06 07:48 PM
Member since Sep 03rd 2005
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#5. "RE: Why?"
In response to Reply # 4


          

Why would Woods think that 750 grafts would ever make you happy considering the extent of your baldness?

And why would Dr. Poswal think that 1500 leg hairs would make you happy
considering the extent of your baldness?

What price did each doc charge you by the way?

http://www.darkskinlaser.com/BodyHairTransplants.html

  

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SchmoeSun Jun-04-06 08:36 PM
Member since Dec 26th 2002
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#6. "RE: Why?"
In response to Reply # 5


          

I imagine Dr. A didn't say 1500 would make him happy, as he said above 'he got scared and changed his number from 4000 to 1500'

but overall it doesnt look like there's that many grafts on the hairline..

Did you have really fine calibre body hair? do you have any photos of the donor site?

>Why would Woods think that 750 grafts would ever make you
>happy considering the extent of your baldness?
>
>And why would Dr. Poswal think that 1500 leg hairs would make
>you happy
>considering the extent of your baldness?
>
>What price did each doc charge you by the way?

  

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therapySun Jun-04-06 09:18 PM
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#7. "Before pictures?"
In response to Reply # 6
Sun Jun-04-06 09:18 PM by therapy

          

Liam, do you have pictures before Dr. Arvind's 1500 grafts?

  

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shine onSun Jun-04-06 09:40 PM
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#8. "RE: Why?"
In response to Reply # 5


          

Unfortunately, too often, when someone posts questionable results, the responses tend to indict the client.

First, he clearly indicated the pics are a year after Dr. A's BHT: "I am attaching pictures taken this month (May 2006). This is approximately 12 months from the 1500 leg hair grafts I had with Dr. Arvind." Secondly, he is faulted for the limited numbers of grafts. I doubt either well respected doctor indicated the outcome would be cosmetically significant.

Liam is addressing the growth results based on the procedures. If the patient feels he had less than satisfactory results, both doctor and client should be asking why, and learning from the outcome. Was it due to technique, or related to the patient's physiology? At the very least, maybe we should be more inclined to do a test patch before undertaking 1,000+ BHT?

  

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ipodSun Jun-04-06 10:38 PM
Member since Oct 27th 2003
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#9. "RE: Why?"
In response to Reply # 8


          

Thank goodness you only did 1500 and not the 4000 originally planned.

  

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LiamSun Jun-04-06 11:23 PM
Member since Nov 24th 2003
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#10. "RE: Why?"
In response to Reply # 9


          

For those people who could not be bothered to read my post properly, it was not my intention to get coverage over a wide area, only to get a dense hairline. That was the objective. The first two pictures are taken a few days ago in May 2006. The last two were taken around jan 05

  

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DuckMon Jun-05-06 12:44 AM
Member since Dec 19th 2003
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#13. "RE: Why?"
In response to Reply # 10


          

Yield . I can not tell the difference after 1500 bht.

  

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pharoBoyMon Jun-05-06 12:42 AM
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#11. "RE: Update one year on"
In response to Reply # 0


          

Yes, it seems that there's no visual improvement from the 1500 grafts by dr. Arvind. Did you try to contact him ?
Can you show any pictures of your leg donar area ? did you have robust, thick leg hair ?

  

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pharoBoyMon Jun-05-06 12:44 AM
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#12. "RE: Update one year on"
In response to Reply # 0


          

ah, and did dr Arvind use "donar sealing" on your procedure ? some doctors don't appreciate donar sealing because it may risk the yield.

  

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therapyMon Jun-05-06 01:17 AM
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#14. "RE: Update one year on"
In response to Reply # 12
Mon Jun-05-06 01:18 AM by therapy

          

Can we see where Dr. A put the grafts ? Any 1 week photos or somethign like that ? Hairsite can you put the photos side by side ?

  

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SunjamMon Jun-05-06 06:20 AM
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#15. "Hairsite"
In response to Reply # 14


          

Are the Doctors cleared to speak on the matter??

  

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HairSiteTue Jun-06-06 05:34 PM
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#17. "RE: Hairsite"
In response to Reply # 15


  

          

>Are the Doctors cleared to speak on the matter??

Yes. It's public knowledge that Liam is a patient of both Dr. Arvind and Dr. Woods. Both doctors had commented on Liam's case in the forum about a year ago.

HairSite.com
email: hairsite@aol.com
========================
Disclaimer: I am NOT a doctor. Please do not consider anything you read from this website or any of the forums as medical advice.

  

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Dr. ArvindMon Jun-05-06 10:05 AM
Member since Jun 23rd 2004
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#16. "RE: Update one year on"
In response to Reply # 0
Mon Jun-05-06 10:21 AM by Dr. Arvind

          

Dear Liam,
Thank you for the update and pictures.

I am currently out of town and just happened to check up the forums. Therefore, the delay in reply.

While you have removed the hair piece could you post some front hairline pictures with the hair combed back.
The aim was to thicken and soften the hairline, so that it could be utilized, in conjunction with the hair piece, with the hair combed back.
If you have fixed the hair piece back on, then could you post some pictures with the hair combed back. That may help me in evaluating the results acheived thus far.


Regards,
Dr. A

Dr.(Capt) Arvind Poswal
Dr. A's Clinic,
A-9,First Floor,
C.R. Park, (Near Nehru Place),
New Delhi-110019, India. www.fusehair.com
e-mail: poswalarvind@yahoo.co.in
Ph- 91-011-26274368,91-098-101-78062
Timings-10a.m.to 5p.m
Scalp & Body hair transplants.

  

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LiamTue Jun-06-06 08:34 PM
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#18. "RE: Update one year on"
In response to Reply # 16


          

I may be able to post a picture in a week or two with my hair combed back.
However there are no pictures with which to compare this with so I am not sure what use it would be. Also my intention is not to comb my hair in this manner.
I do not wish to post pictures with the hairpiece on.




>Dear Liam,
>Thank you for the update and pictures.
>
>I am currently out of town and just happened to check up the
>forums. Therefore, the delay in reply.
>
>While you have removed the hair piece could you post some
>front hairline pictures with the hair combed back.
>The aim was to thicken and soften the hairline, so that it
>could be utilized, in conjunction with the hair piece, with
>the hair combed back.
>If you have fixed the hair piece back on, then could you post
>some pictures with the hair combed back. That may help me in
>evaluating the results acheived thus far.
>
>
>Regards,
>Dr. A

  

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Dr WoodsWed Jun-07-06 03:33 PM
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#19. "RE: Update one year on"
In response to Reply # 18
Wed Jun-07-06 04:02 PM by Dr Woods

          

Liam, that there was some email confusion in 2004 was regrettable, for which I apologize.

For 750 grafts to stretch such a large and low hairline, temple to temple, was never going to achieve a full density appearance, and as you remember, we debated what to do quite extensively.

Nonetheless, the density achieved for that number of grafts in that area is good. You needed another 700 hundred and , again, I am sorry for the confusion which led to what happened.

Arvind posted a deliberate, patronising and unjust thread 1 year ago, without your permission or knowledge, to misrepresent,vilify and discredit me, and as usual, praising himself.

Despite my disgust and abhorrence of his tactics, I wished you well, as stated 1 year ago.

I am saddened , but not surprised that there was negligible improvement with his 1500 grafts. ( are there areas of scalp shock ? From the appearance, in my opinion, there is.)

People should now go back to what was posted regarding this case ,1 year ago.
http://www.hairsite4.com/dc/dcboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=12&topic_id=23981&mode=full

What was initially posted shows what an ego driven, dishonest political industry this is .

Some "doctors" find a niche in this totally unregulated HT field , where Insatiable egos craving accolades are constantly trying to get recognition for being better or more advanced than the next guy.

And it gets especially dirty because money is also at stake.

Rarely, something of genuine and lasting substance is achieved.
Otherwise, from what I am seeing, the vast majority of what is touted is utter baloney, offering false hope to a desperate and gullible public.

The main advance in the field is recognizing that doctors must have innate skill, many years practice and training, and then be prepared to work incredibly hard on each and every patient.
There are no safe credible short cuts.


Dr Ray Woods


  

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marcoWed Jun-07-06 08:36 PM
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#23. "RE: Update one year on"
In response to Reply # 19


          

I have been posting and reading this forum for a long time. I think it is about time that you stopped "bashing" arvind. It is becoming an embarrassment to all. If he had insulted you then ask for an apology and let us move on. He is certainly a creditable surgeon and your aspersions are not even plausible or tolerable whether you are a sponsor or not.

  

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DuckWed Jun-07-06 09:55 PM
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#24. "RE: Update one year on"
In response to Reply # 23


          

Bashing Marco?? Look who comes on and starts by showing photos of a prior doctors work with nothing to back it up as shown by Liam. Second time. And as you can see Liam shows what the deal is and tells his story. Then the Flaphair guy that also Dr. A took the opportunity to show up Woods. And this patient won't even let the doctor show what he has in video and photos?? Kind of one sided don't you think? I do not know where you come from but the right to defend oneself is very important here. Let the public decide if you want to bring it to the internet.

  

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SamsonWed Jun-07-06 11:28 PM
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#25. "RE: Update one year on"
In response to Reply # 24


          

What i want to see from both surgeons is that they look after Liam in anyway possible

If we dont get respect as patients on the boards where do we ?

I have no reason to doubt Liam and it will be interesting to me how this is handled.

I must add that i am appreciative overall of both Dr woods and Dr Arvind and there efforts in FUE

My Main point is this guy spent a considerable amount of money so a duty of care is owed to look after his interest and suitable post op advice.

Or maybe i am old fashioned and dont live in the real world !

  

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marcoThu Jun-08-06 01:38 AM
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#26. "RE: Update one year on"
In response to Reply # 24


          

>Bashing Marco?? Look who comes on and starts by showing
>photos of a prior doctors work with nothing to back it up as
>shown by Liam. Second time. And as you can see Liam shows what
>the deal is and tells his story. Then the Flaphair guy that
>also Dr. A took the opportunity to show up Woods. And this
>patient won't even let the doctor show what he has in video
>and photos?? Kind of one sided don't you think? I do not know
>where you come from but the right to defend oneself is very
>important here. Let the public decide if you want to bring it
>to the internet.


O.K fair enough. Why not ask Dr. Arvind to apologise and not to do it again with a slap on the wrist and then move on. There is a feud here though and it gives an unfair impression of both Dr's. From my understanding, they are both very genuine passionate surgeons. Would you not agree that both have the best interests of their patient at heart; it is only their attitude to each other that is bringing out the "bar room brawl" mentality. Again, I just think that it detracts from both of them. I do agree that everyone has the right of defence.

  

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Dr WoodsThu Jun-08-06 06:38 AM
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#27. "RE: Update one year on"
In response to Reply # 26
Fri Jun-09-06 03:40 AM by HairSite

          

The 2005 photos are much lighter and there is more washout due to the exposure/flash, especially in the photo shown by V.

But it really doesn't matter.

It is quite clear from the overall perspective of the original photos that there has been little if any improvement. And in my opinion, possible scalp shock to the front.

In view of the <> misrepresentation of Liams case 12 months ago, I make no apology for stating my opinion.

Dr Ray Woods

  

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boomboomFri Jun-09-06 01:20 AM
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#29. "Dr. Woods..."
In response to Reply # 27


          

Dr. Woods,
Whether or not you have ever had a bad result, in all sincerity, you will always be one of the best ht doctors ever.

  

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warrengFri Jun-09-06 03:07 AM
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#30. "RE: Dr. Woods..."
In response to Reply # 29


          

Every doc does not have 100%. I agree his work is excellent.

  

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Dr WoodsSat Jun-10-06 10:28 AM
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#31. "RE: Dr. Woods..."
In response to Reply # 30
Sat Jun-10-06 10:31 AM by Dr Woods

          

The hairline created for Liam with 700 grafts, over such an expansive area is not a bad result, but actually quite good, and I would challenge any other doctor to achieve better in those circumstances.

What is questioned here are the 1500 hundred grafts that came 12 months ago, achieving virtually nothing, and the condescending , patronising , load of utter baloney that accompanied it in the form of that infamous post referred to in this thread.

Dr Ray Woods

  

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hairdarSat Jun-10-06 10:42 AM
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#32. "RE: Dr. Woods..."
In response to Reply # 31


          

I think baloney can't stand the test of time and we now see the results of the guinea pigs who bought it.

Has Liam sought compensation ?

  

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scientist8046Sat Jun-10-06 04:59 PM
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#33. "RE: Dr. Woods..."
In response to Reply # 32


          

slander rocks

s

www.bodyhairtransplant.blogspot.com

http://www.youtube.com/metedude

  

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hairdarSat Jun-10-06 05:22 PM
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#34. "RE: Dr. Woods..."
In response to Reply # 33


          


Skywalker Fri May-13-05 01:32 PM
Member since Jan 19th 2003
745 posts

#24085, "RE: cherry picked pics and the fangled angle"
In response to Reply # 46


Looking at the first 2 pictures the yield for 750 grafts looks fine to me. 750 is not much at all.

Would I have wanted hair placed up front like that? Not a chance but I figure the guy had his reasons (hairpiece behind ?). With regard to hair angle in the first 2 pictures the hair angles look alright to me but I think the only way to really judge is to see him in person.

Obviously more density would be much much better but HT's cost (this is where Dr A. has a BIG advantage).

I figure Dr A. is using this patient to attack Dr Woods (I am assuming this guy must have gone to Dr Woods first). I think he has every right to do this as it helps us patients make up our own mind, however, as Dr A. does not (to my knowledge) have any 12 month grown out FUE results this is not exactly a level playing field






  

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pharoBoySat Jun-10-06 06:22 PM
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#35. "RE: Dr. Woods..."
In response to Reply # 34


          

" figure Dr A. is using this patient to attack Dr Woods (I am assuming this guy must have gone to Dr Woods first). I think he has every right to do this as it helps us patients make up our own mind, however, as Dr A. does not (to my knowledge) have any 12 month grown out FUE results this is not exactly a level playing field"

You probably didn't read the thread well enought. Dr. Arvind can't be the one who wants this thread to continue. It's his grafts that didn't grow after one year, not Dr. Woods. If anything, this thread is clearly gives credit to Dr. Woods.

  

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hairdarSat Jun-10-06 06:35 PM
Member since Jun 01st 2006
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#36. "RE: Dr. Woods..."
In response to Reply # 35


          

http://www.hairsite4.com/dc/dcboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=12&topic_id=23981&mode=full

pb - It's skywalkers response from a year ago, cut and pasted. I think it tells the story quite nicely

  

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VWed Jun-07-06 04:03 PM
Member since Oct 21st 2005
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#20. "Comparative pictures"
In response to Reply # 0


          

I think the patient is the best judge to determine whether the results have been disappointing or satisfactory.

I have taken the liberty of loading comparative pictures of one area of the hairline from the pictures posted by Liam.
The cameras are different in the 2005 and 2006 pictures.


The transplanted body hair may not have grown as long as the scalp hair. If the body hair take on scalp hair characteristics, and grows as long and thick as scalp hair, then the overall coverage will improve.
Till the body hair take on scalp hair characteristics, any increase in density will be visible only in the initial 1 inch or so of the hair growth (@ toppik).


I work for Dr. A's Clinic.
I am not a Physician.
My opinions need not be shared by Dr. Arvind Poswal.
www.fusehair.com

Attachment #1, (jpg file)

  

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DuckWed Jun-07-06 04:24 PM
Member since Dec 19th 2003
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#21. "RE: Comparative pictures"
In response to Reply # 20


          

Hey Liam. See what a little photo shop and light change can do. Maybe you will end up with a full head of hair soon.

  

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VWed Jun-07-06 05:49 PM
Member since Oct 21st 2005
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#22. "RE: Comparative pictures"
In response to Reply # 21


          

>Hey Liam. See what a little photo shop and light change can
>do. Maybe you will end up with a full head of hair soon.

Duck,
The photos are posted by Liam. Including the 2006 ones.
We have no control over the lighting etc. I have only arranged the photos side by side.

I work for Dr. A's Clinic.
I am not a Physician.
My opinions need not be shared by Dr. Arvind Poswal.
www.fusehair.com

  

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SkywalkerSun Jun-11-06 02:52 PM
Member since Jan 20th 2003
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#37. "I think hairdar is a disguise for a regular poster."
In response to Reply # 22


          


I have always used the same icon name across all boards, this of course allows others to try and manipulate what you think because it is much much easier to trace your statements, however, I am wary of people who voluntarily (as opposed to being banned) keep changing user names - it makes me wonder what they have to hide?

Frankly I do not believe that hairdar is a newbie, I think they are a regular poster using a new name to conceal their identity and try to discredit me. New posters do not normally search through old threads for posts they do not know about, however, for the record I stand by my statement of a year ago - AT THE TIME Dr A. did not have any final BHT results of consequence to show - he does now and he definitely, in my opinion, is one of the driving forces moving BHT on. I was incredibly disappointed with how fast BHT was progressing before he showed up, even though I know the some doctors were really trying their best.

Dr A. and Dr Woods are at the leading edge of BHT, personally I do not mind them having the odd spat, I think when this happens we learn things that are going on 'under the radar' that we otherwise would not know. I am sure that for David having to referee it is difficult, but for the real customers it is a good thing.

I still think the jury is still out with BHT thin calibre hair (how thin? that's the problem, I do not know), but for thick calibre body hair these two doctors produce results. I do not feel equal to discussing the relative position of Dr Umar because of what happened before, but he is definitely producing some very fine results now as well.

hairdar why do you just not tell us who you really are - it would be more honest wouldn't it?

______________________________________________________________________________________

If you disagree with my opinion I do not mind - I am not paid to post here and I am not a missionary.

  

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scientist8046Sun Jun-11-06 04:22 PM
Member since Nov 29th 2005
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#38. "RE: I think hairdar is a disguise for a regular poster."
In response to Reply # 37


          

i agree, newbie bashers have no credibility

s

www.bodyhairtransplant.blogspot.com

http://www.youtube.com/metedude

  

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SamsonSat Jun-17-06 05:05 PM
Member since Jan 27th 2003
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#39. "RE: Updates"
In response to Reply # 38


          

Any updates on this posters case?

  

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