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Subject: "Looking for opinions on brutal plug repair" First topic | Last topic
jotronicWed Sep-27-06 10:12 PM
Member since Jul 14th 2003
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"Looking for opinions on brutal plug repair"


  

          

All,

As most of you know, plug grafting was the only widespread technique used for transplanting healthy hair from the donor area into the recipient area for a few decades. While the practice had the chance early on of being relatively advanced (for it's day) the prevalent procedure performed was plug grafting where the doctor would use a 4mm (or larger) punch tool and core out healthy hair bearing tissue from the donor area and place these large grafts into the recipient areas. The subsequent results from these procedures were very unnatural and difficult to hide. In addition, the donor area would usually be left to heal without any sort of closure (sutures, staples) and the subsequent scarring would be extensive.

Below is a patient that came to us a few years ago after submitting his case for our review. Because of his condition his social and professional lives were severely hindered as he simply could not face the outside world without a hat. He sent his photos and information to a variety of clinics and he was either turned down or the solutions proposed were too expensive relative to the promised results.

I would like to know what some of you would have suggested for this patient in order to return to a more acceptable appearance.







Joe Tillman
aka, Jotronic
Hasson & Wong
www.hassonandwong.com
www.hairtransplantmentor.com
Joe@HassonandWong.com

1.800.859.2266

The Truth Is In The Results

7917 FU Grafts

Attachment #1, (jpg file)
Attachment #2, (jpg file)

  

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Replies to this topic
Subject Author Message Date ID
RE: Looking for opinions on brutal plug repair
Sep 27th 2006
1
My reccomendation..
Sep 28th 2006
4
RE: Looking for opinions on brutal plug repair
Sep 28th 2006
5
Boomboom, your pics?
Sep 28th 2006
6
      RE: Boomboom, your pics?
Sep 28th 2006
7
           This is aweful...
Sep 28th 2006
8
           RE: This is aweful...
Sep 28th 2006
13
           RE: This is aweful...
Sep 28th 2006
14
                RE: This is aweful...
Sep 28th 2006
15
                Already repaired?
Sep 28th 2006
17
                     RE: Already repaired?
Sep 29th 2006
22
                          BS
Sep 29th 2006
25
                          RE: Already repaired? to scarred
Sep 29th 2006
26
                          RE: Already repaired?
Sep 30th 2006
35
                          RE: Already repaired?
Sep 30th 2006
38
                          whiskerboy
Oct 02nd 2006
88
                RE: This is aweful...
Sep 28th 2006
16
           RE: This is aweful...
Sep 29th 2006
21
                RE: This is aweful...
Sep 29th 2006
24
           Boom Boom..
Sep 28th 2006
9
           RE: Boom Boom..
Sep 28th 2006
12
                RE: Boom Boom..
Sep 28th 2006
19
                     nota
Sep 29th 2006
20
           RE: Boomboom, your pics?
Sep 28th 2006
10
RE: Looking for opinions on brutal plug repair
Sep 28th 2006
11
Jo, Thats what I expected
Sep 28th 2006
18
      skin grafting
Sep 29th 2006
23
           The solution and the truth...
Sep 30th 2006
27
           Hairsite should recognise my knowledge...
Sep 30th 2006
29
           RE: Hairsite should recognise my knowledge...
Oct 03rd 2006
90
           Attn: Joe
Sep 30th 2006
30
           Hey Fittest:
Sep 30th 2006
31
           Attn: nthmainneighbor
Sep 30th 2006
33
                RE: Attn: nthmainneighbor
Sep 30th 2006
36
           RE: Attn: Joe
Oct 03rd 2006
89
                RE: Attn: Joe
Oct 03rd 2006
91
           the truth...
Sep 30th 2006
34
                RE: the truth...
Sep 30th 2006
37
           RE: The fundamental problem
Sep 30th 2006
28
                RE: The fundamental problem
Sep 30th 2006
32
                     The cost ?
Sep 30th 2006
39
                          Fantastic Work
Oct 01st 2006
42
The golden age of HT
Oct 01st 2006
53
RE: The Bronze age of HT
Oct 02nd 2006
82
      RE: The Bronze age of HT
Oct 02nd 2006
83
      RE: The Bronze age of HT
Oct 02nd 2006
84
           RE: The Bronze age of HT
Oct 02nd 2006
85
                RE: The Bronze age of HT
Oct 02nd 2006
87
                     Bah. HT in perpetual *TIN* age. Thin and stuck-on....
Oct 03rd 2006
92
Jotronic
Oct 04th 2006
93
RE: Jotronic
Oct 04th 2006
94
      RE: Jotronic
Oct 04th 2006
95

HanginInthereWed Sep-27-06 11:48 PM
Member since Apr 13th 2003
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#1. "RE: Looking for opinions on brutal plug repair"
In response to Reply # 0


          


His main worry now is not hair or no hair, his main worry now is looking like a freak

why not just remove the plugs.....at least he would look naturally bald in those areas, much better than how he looks now


Hangin Daily Regimen
1)Maxi Hair by Country Life, 2
2)Kal... Amino Max 2(multi mineral) 2

DHT INHIBITORS(blockers)
3)Saw Palmetto extract 320mg standardized
4)Pygeum 500mg
5)Nettles Leaf Powder 500mg
6)Beta Sitosterol 60mg (Doctor's A-Z Formula)

  

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notanewbieThu Sep-28-06 02:17 AM
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#4. "My reccomendation.."
In response to Reply # 1
Thu Sep-28-06 02:17 AM by notanewbie

          

First of all, those plugs are too large and too poorly placed to "plant around" or try to camoflauge. They need to be removed, via biopsy punch and probably sutured closed because they are so large. The hair existing in those plug grafts is extensive, I would guess you could salvage 1000 grafts from the plug graft redistribution alone.

Assuming he has never had a strip, and from the look of his recipient I would think he has not, I would remove the donor scarring with a strip procedure. I am certain that his donor healed with secondary intention and he has equally bad 4mm plug scarring in the donor.

Strip out the plug scarring and leave him a thin H&W liniar scar. The grafts you will remove along with the donor scarring will be dissected and replanted to improve the hairline and density in the frontal third.

Thats the only thing I could even imagine doing, he cannot remain like this.

  

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boomboomThu Sep-28-06 04:03 AM
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#5. "RE: Looking for opinions on brutal plug repair"
In response to Reply # 0
Thu Sep-28-06 04:05 AM by boomboom

          

He can do as Notawanbie says...or just fill in around the plugs. It was done with me and it works. I got plugged in 1980. Even though my hair is thin and not dense, filling in with bh made a big difference. Only body hair was used.

For the back, where the shotgun scars are... maybe strip makes sense. A strip scar can't be any worse than scar holes in the back of the head. I should know. I still have 200 of them.

  

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benjiThu Sep-28-06 04:42 AM
Member since Dec 19th 2005
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#6. "Boomboom, your pics?"
In response to Reply # 5


          

Boomboom,

Do you have any pictures of your hair as it is now, post-BH? Did the BH take on scalp characteristics for you really well?



The transplants that guy got were probably just originally intended to "buff up" an area. I think thats a mistake if that area might go bald. He no doubt has to wear a toupee'. I hope he has alot of donor hair and some body hair if he needs some extra hair to buff up his hair further. Hate to see a man suffer like that.

  

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scarred1Thu Sep-28-06 05:06 AM
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#7. "RE: Boomboom, your pics?"
In response to Reply # 6
Thu Sep-28-06 08:34 AM by HairSite

          

.

  

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okanaganThu Sep-28-06 05:56 AM
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#8. "This is aweful..."
In response to Reply # 7


          


Oh the humanity...I keep looking at these pics and wondering how this guy kept himself sane enough to not taking a baseball bat to this docs face. I would have been mentally crippled if this happend to me.
To the guys who have been plugged like this Im asking how did the doctors get you into their chair? Did you have any idea that these plugs would look like this? What I mean is when/if you asked them to explain the procedure before surgery did they tell you that we will be taking out 5mm cylinders of hair from the back and leaving the wounds open and they will leave scars and then plant the plugs up front and top that may or may not be noticable. Or did they say they would do something different that would make them undetectable(did they even use that word back then to describe how they would look?). Or did you guys get shown fake pics and didnt even ask questions? Im just curious as to how they fooled you guys...And were you guys just as shocked when you saw the results grown in? Or did you know right after surgery? Sorry for all the questions I just cant even comprehend how this kind of carnage gets past our good judgment...Docs who did work like this should be castrated, because im sure the guys who had this done to them were virtually castrated themselves and found it hard to find partners.

  

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boomboomThu Sep-28-06 07:11 AM
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#13. "RE: This is aweful..."
In response to Reply # 8


          

I was a 20 year old freaked out kid desperately looking for a solution. Plugs were the newest thing in 1980. I still remember my doc saying, "before you know it, the hair will be hanging in your eyes."

  

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hairdarThu Sep-28-06 07:36 AM
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#14. "RE: This is aweful..."
In response to Reply # 13


          

boomboom - There was a recent case from Dr A regarding a repair patient that had his plugs done by an Indian plastic surgeon in 2004!!
My question - Do you think it would be appropriate to name the doctor as fair warning to other patients ?

  

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scarred1Thu Sep-28-06 08:15 AM
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#15. "RE: This is aweful..."
In response to Reply # 14
Thu Sep-28-06 08:33 AM by HairSite

          

Just so everyone knows, this patient has already had repair procedures. I have followed his story. He looks much better now.

  

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boomboomThu Sep-28-06 04:40 PM
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#17. "Already repaired?"
In response to Reply # 15


          

Oh he's already repaired? Then why waste our time?
I hope this isn't an advertisement where the finished product is pulled out in a few days after they snagged us in emotionally...

  

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scarred1Fri Sep-29-06 10:16 AM
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#22. "RE: Already repaired?"
In response to Reply # 17


          

>Oh he's already repaired? Then why waste our time?
>I hope this isn't an advertisement where the finished product
>is pulled out in a few days after they snagged us in
>emotionally...



At least you'll get to see the finished result. What good is a proposed plan if we never actually get to see the outcome.

And just so you know, about 99% of the posts on this forum are advertisments, in one form or another. There are very, very few of us that don't have some affiliation with the clinics and Drs discussed here.

  

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HanginInthereFri Sep-29-06 09:13 PM
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#25. "BS"
In response to Reply # 22


          

Just because a lot of guys work for clinics, doesnt mean the rest of us do,
some of us are actual people looking for information on our own transplants
not shills for some clinic


Hangin Daily Regimen
1)Maxi Hair by Country Life, 2
2)Kal... Amino Max 2(multi mineral) 2

DHT INHIBITORS(blockers)
3)Saw Palmetto extract 320mg standardized
4)Pygeum 500mg
5)Nettles Leaf Powder 500mg
6)Beta Sitosterol 60mg (Doctor's A-Z Formula)

  

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boomboomFri Sep-29-06 11:06 PM
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#26. "RE: Already repaired? to scarred"
In response to Reply # 22


          

I am posting my pics regularly. Which is an honest way of doing it. Who knows how it will turn out?

Rather than making it seem that there is a hair repair that will be underway and OH! it shows up a few days later already finished and then of course only successful results are shown...

  

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bbaSat Sep-30-06 04:58 AM
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#35. "RE: Already repaired?"
In response to Reply # 22


  

          

You say that about 99% of the post are advertisements i would like to believe that isn't so,i know im not connected to anyone and when i do post its just to try and tell the truth as best i can.

  

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johnpSat Sep-30-06 09:31 PM
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#38. "RE: Already repaired?"
In response to Reply # 35


          

The general rule of thumb on this board is that if you have a different opinion then you must be a shill advertising for some doctor.

  

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scientist8046Mon Oct-02-06 07:40 PM
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#88. "whiskerboy"
In response to Reply # 22


          

i'm watching you

s

www.bodyhairtransplant.blogspot.com

http://www.youtube.com/metedude

  

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boomboomThu Sep-28-06 04:36 PM
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#16. "RE: This is aweful..."
In response to Reply # 14


          

I think it is always good to warn people. I wish someone would hae warned me--but I was 20 years old. I wouldn't hae listened.

  

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topcat611Fri Sep-29-06 04:51 AM
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#21. "RE: This is aweful..."
In response to Reply # 8


          

These plugs are probably from 20 years ago. The advertising was very deceptive, and no the doctor did not explain the procedure fully. At least from my own experience. He was simply going to take some hair from the back and place it in the front. At 22 or so, I was pretty naive, we didn't have the internet, so very little information was available.

This is what happens when you place too much trust in doctors. There are some ethical HT doctors out there, but very few. Hair transplants probably attract the bottom of the barrel. It's like a traffic court lawyer. Sure you're a lawyer, but when someone ask you what type of law, what do you say, traffic tickets. It must be the same way when people ask, what type of medicine you practice. I'm sure there are a lot of disgruntled doctors out there performing HT.

If you think the same thing can't happen to you, you're sadly mistaken. It might not be a HT, but it could easily be in another area of medicine. Don't put too much trust in doctors, and let the buyer beware. Live and learn.

I am not a doctor, I am not a surgical tech, I am a hair transplant victim.

http://hairsite.com/serendipity/authors/19-Topcat611

  

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topcat611Fri Sep-29-06 08:34 PM
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#24. "RE: This is aweful..."
In response to Reply # 21


          

I do admit feeling slightly offended by the comment, what did the doctor do to get you in the chair? Makes me feel like a real sucker. This can be explained by the conditioning process of always having to consult a doctor? Unfortunately it takes something like this to change your condtioning.

Doctors perform unnecessary operations everyday. People get butchered and many die. I guess you could say the same thing. What did the doctor do to get you on the table? At least you can ask the ones that are still alive. Here's your answer, TRUST.

I am not a doctor, I am not a surgical tech, I am a hair transplant victim.

http://hairsite.com/serendipity/authors/19-Topcat611

  

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notanewbieThu Sep-28-06 05:58 AM
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#9. "Boom Boom.."
In response to Reply # 7


          

As i told you to do, this guy needs to excise those pluggy grafts and redistribute them.

Your case differs from his because your plug grafts were not as large AND your plug grafts all were angled correctly. This poor guy has 5mm plug grafts haphazardly placed in every possible direction you can imagine.

That is not a case where yo "should" place singles and doubles around them to camo them, that is a case where they are too big and going in the wrong direction of nature so, they NEED to be excised.

Also, as I told you, his donor area should be stripped of the open donor scarring which will give him a more cosmetic result in the donor AND allow him to get many more needed grafts to increase density and camo what he does not remove.

  

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boomboomThu Sep-28-06 06:58 AM
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#12. "RE: Boom Boom.."
In response to Reply # 9
Thu Sep-28-06 07:09 AM by boomboom

          

My plugs are at least that big. I'd bet they are bigger. He has better donor hair than I. It looks like he can go without fixing the donor region for awhile because the hair in back covers it up.
Basically it is up to him how much work he wants done. And how he wants to proceed. I believe he can have normal looking hairline again.


  

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notanewbieThu Sep-28-06 04:45 PM
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#19. "RE: Boom Boom.."
In response to Reply # 12


          

Your plugs went in the same direction and his do not, that is why camo on you can work and also why on this patient it cannot.

I dont care how perfectly angled 5mm plug grafts are, I think it would be more natural and a better use of resources (hair) to remove them or core them and redistribute the hair. 5mm plugs will always be visible under close inspection.

  

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boomboomFri Sep-29-06 12:14 AM
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#20. "nota"
In response to Reply # 19


          

Nota,
I agree with you. My plugs were big and basically hairless, so there wasn't really anything to redistribute.
I think this guy can actually have fantasic results in the right hands...

  

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Michael_77Thu Sep-28-06 05:59 AM
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#10. "RE: Boomboom, your pics?"
In response to Reply # 7


  

          

1)Shave/remove the plugs.
2)Then get a Farrell hairpeice- those things are amazing, at least as far as the front detectability goes.

Oh, God I don't want this to happen to me. I hope I didn't transplant to early in life!!!!

1.Surgery: 3 bad MHR strip HTS, 4400 strip grafts in temples and hairline by Armani in 06-07.
2.Regimen: Minox, Propecia, MaxiHair, American Crew Revitalizing Spray, Nizoral and Head and Shoulders.

  

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jotronicThu Sep-28-06 06:44 AM
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#11. "RE: Looking for opinions on brutal plug repair"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

Since some of you have mentioned the donor area I thought it prudent to show you what it looks like. Again, all input and opinions are appreciated.

The scarring is not limited to what you see in the photo as it is spread out to either side and also a bit (as you can see) below and above.


Joe Tillman
aka, Jotronic
Hasson & Wong
www.hassonandwong.com
www.hairtransplantmentor.com
Joe@HassonandWong.com

1.800.859.2266

The Truth Is In The Results

7917 FU Grafts

Attachment #1, (jpg file)

  

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notanewbieThu Sep-28-06 04:43 PM
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#18. "Jo, Thats what I expected"
In response to Reply # 11


          

That is about what I expected to see in the donor..large circular plug scarring. You may not be able to excise 100% of those scars because of where they are located but, you can get a majority of them out with a single strip surgery and since his scalp is technically "virgin" I doubt he runs the risk of a wide scar. Even if the scar doesnt heal to be 1mm thin, it will certainly be better than 5mm thick like his current plug scarring.

  

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Mr FrodoFri Sep-29-06 06:26 PM
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#23. "skin grafting"
In response to Reply # 18


  

          

The plugs are so huge you may even need skin grafting after taking them out.

  

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jotronicSat Sep-30-06 12:05 AM
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#27. "The solution and the truth..."
In response to Reply # 23


  

          

This post will address a few things regarding the patient and the thread in general.

Boomboom said… “I hope this isn't an advertisement where the finished product is pulled out in a few days after they snagged us in emotionally.”

An advertisement? No. Some clinics have been posting like this for quite a while now and a few of you have voiced concerns, e.g. the poster Okanagan (You in Kelowna?) and Boomboom as mentioned above. I think of it more as an experiment although the result is posted below. I wanted to post this patient case in the manner in which I did to see if anyone would come out against this “tactic” or what Boomboom described as a possible advertisement. Saying that this type of post snags you emotionally is exactly right as it was designed to emulate those posts by others that precede this one in a similar fashion. This type of posting is very uncharacteristic of us and is not our style. We prefer to simply post the before/after photos and graft counts, as it is ultimately the results that matter.


The truth is that experienced surgeons know what to do and if they have any reservations or questions about which direction to take on a particular case they usually turn to their peers (yes even in this industry) for input. While internet forums are invaluable for patient to patient and clinic to patient participation/communication and has helped to elevate the field it is not a proper place for hair restoration clinics to seek suggestions for surgical options on pending cases.

What I find particularly odd is that after a few years of this type of posting (marketing?) going on theFittest chose my thread to voice his, shall I say, “concerns”. His post was summarily deleted as I suspect it was because of the confrontational tone. Why would theFittest choose the first, only and LAST post like this by anyone from Hasson & Wong to share his position? Other clinics have been doing it for years.

Anyway, with that part out of the way, here are the results. Oh, and Notanewbie, you were dead on correct as this was the ONLY way to resolve this case.

Remember, the truth is in the results.





Joe Tillman
aka, Jotronic
Hasson & Wong
www.hassonandwong.com
www.hairtransplantmentor.com
Joe@HassonandWong.com

1.800.859.2266

The Truth Is In The Results

7917 FU Grafts

Attachment #1, (jpg file)

  

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notanewbieSat Sep-30-06 12:40 AM
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#29. "Hairsite should recognise my knowledge..."
In response to Reply # 27
Sat Sep-30-06 12:41 AM by notanewbie

          

He Jo, not to gloat but I cant help but laugh when people on this site claim to be experts and question my knowledge of HT's only to be told I was dead on with the diagnosis and repair decisions made for this patient. Not so bad for someone who knows nothing , huh?

I do have some questions though.

First off, how much of the open donor scarring were you able to remove? All of it, most of it? Did the scar stretch as a result of the amount of tissue you excised? Do you have any photos (shaved or otherwise) of the donor scar after procedure 1 or 2?

My main question is the hairline repair. WOW! That guy had tons of plug grafts right up front and you said it was excised, it looks outstanding. Was the hairline excised in a strip like fashion and sutured closed or was it punched out and sutured closed? Tough to tell in the photos but, it looks like a forehead strip was taken and sutured. In any case it looks great. Also, what did you do with the grafts that were excised from the original hairline? Did you use those initially to plant in front and frame the face?

Moving on to the large grafts that were excised via scalpel. Were those sutured closed or left to heal on their own? I am assuming they were sutured because they were huge. Did that leave any scarring? Finally, were ANY of those large plug grafts left in the ddonor or were they all cored or extracted completely during the procedures?

Sorry for all the questions but, thats how I get so stupid.

  

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jotronicTue Oct-03-06 06:39 AM
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#90. "RE: Hairsite should recognise my knowledge..."
In response to Reply # 29


  

          

Notanewbie,

Somehow I figured you'd get the solution correct:)

"First off, how much of the open donor scarring were you able to remove? All of it, most of it? Did the scar stretch as a result of the amount of tissue you excised? Do you have any photos (shaved or otherwise) of the donor scar after procedure 1 or 2?"

I think we removed most of it and the resulting scar turned out great but I have not seen any photos. If he can send me some then I'd be happy to ost the results.

"Was the hairline excised in a strip like fashion and sutured closed or was it punched out and sutured closed? Tough to tell in the photos but, it looks like a forehead strip was taken and sutured. In any caseLo it looks great. Also, what did you do with the grafts that were excised from the original hairline? Did you use those initially to plant in front and frame the face?

Yes, the frontal hairline was excises via strip. The scar is seriously hard to find and is something that we've done many times. The remaining grafts were divided via microscopes and placed in front of the hairline excision on the same day.

"Moving on to the large grafts that were excised via scalpel. Were those sutured closed or left to heal on their own? I am assuming they were sutured because they were huge. Did that leave any scarring? Finally, were ANY of those large plug grafts left in the ddonor or were they all cored or extracted completely during the procedures?"

All cored plugs were sutured and the resulting scars are invisible. Suturing cored plugs works really well. We did not core out all of the plugs as some of them were fine to leave behind.

Joe Tillman
aka, Jotronic
Hasson & Wong
www.hassonandwong.com
www.hairtransplantmentor.com
Joe@HassonandWong.com

1.800.859.2266

The Truth Is In The Results

7917 FU Grafts

  

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TheFittestSat Sep-30-06 12:41 AM
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#30. "Attn: Joe"
In response to Reply # 27
Sat Sep-30-06 12:50 AM by TheFittest

          

Joe,

>What I find particularly odd is that after a few years of this type >of posting (marketing?) going on theFittest chose my thread to >voice his, shall I say, “concerns”. His post was summarily deleted >as I suspect it was because of the confrontational tone. Why would >theFittest choose the first, only and LAST post like this by anyone >from Hasson & Wong to share his position? Other clinics have been >doing it for years.

Maybe b/c I have respect for you guys? I knew what this was about the second I saw it, and wondered why you'd do it.

And btw, why are you commenting on *my post* when mine was deleted? not too cool Mr. 'Tronic. And btw, rein in any of your posters who are talking sh*t about me. It's not right.

TheFittest

EDIT: spelling

  

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nthmainneighborSat Sep-30-06 01:23 AM
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#31. "Hey Fittest:"
In response to Reply # 30


  

          

This is my first post in this forum. I am a patient of Dr. Cole's and would like to ask you a question. Is there a way I can send you a private message?

Thanks

Happy & Enjoying Life

  

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TheFittestSat Sep-30-06 02:35 AM
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#33. "Attn: nthmainneighbor"
In response to Reply # 31


          

>This is my first post in this forum. I am a patient of Dr.
>Cole's and would like to ask you a question. Is there a way I
>can send you a private message?
>
>Thanks
>

Hello nthmainneighbor,

The PM function here is disabled. If you have a hotmail or similar account, please leave that information here and I'll get back to you.

Look forward to it.

TheFittest

  

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nthmainneighborSat Sep-30-06 05:19 AM
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#36. "RE: Attn: nthmainneighbor"
In response to Reply # 33


  

          

Fittest:

I can be reached at:
art@matildasonline.com

Thanks

Happy & Enjoying Life

  

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jotronicTue Oct-03-06 05:44 AM
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#89. "RE: Attn: Joe"
In response to Reply # 30


  

          

Fittest,

Maybe I read it wrong. Maybe I misinterpreted your comments but it was deleted for some reason, right? If I took it wrong then you have my apology.

"And btw, rein in any of your posters who are talking sh*t about me. It's not right."

Asking me to reign in anyone on the boards suggests that you think I control others. I do not, much less do I have the time to. Whatever someone says about you is between you and them (what are they saying anyway?) unless of course someone says they are speaking for me which no one is. If that is happening, let me know, and you'll see something more severe than simply "reigning" someone in.

Joe Tillman
aka, Jotronic
Hasson & Wong
www.hassonandwong.com
www.hairtransplantmentor.com
Joe@HassonandWong.com

1.800.859.2266

The Truth Is In The Results

7917 FU Grafts

  

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TheFittestTue Oct-03-06 12:20 PM
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#91. "RE: Attn: Joe"
In response to Reply # 89


          

Joe,

I think you did misunderstand the original post I made, and the issue with the poster(s) has been clarified to my satisfaction.

Best,
TheFittest


  

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Mr FrodoSat Sep-30-06 02:47 AM
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#34. "the truth..."
In response to Reply # 27


  

          

This is low, it's just a "hit" job on Arvind, sometimes it's not really about the results, is it

  

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scientist8046Sat Sep-30-06 08:44 AM
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#37. "RE: the truth..."
In response to Reply # 34


          

it's like having your cake and eating it too

s

www.bodyhairtransplant.blogspot.com

http://www.youtube.com/metedude

  

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gillenatorSat Sep-30-06 12:10 AM
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#28. "RE: The fundamental problem"
In response to Reply # 23
Sat Sep-30-06 12:17 AM by gillenator

  

          

The fundamental problem in the past decades of surgically treating MPB was that many of the doctors doing the open donor procedures were not informing these patients what they would look like when their genetic hairloss progressed to the point of losing virtually all of their natural hair. And as was mentioned earlier in this thread, many, many guys like the one being presented to us are left in this dilemma because the plugs were primarily intended to be a density filler when there was still a fair amount of natural hair left in the recipient areas. And also used to strenghthen an existing hairline with 2mm plugs and even 4mm plugs. So patients in many ways were mis-informed. IMO, patients are mis-informed when either they receive erroneous information OR they are not provided necessary and accurate information. The other major challenge to those of us who are older with MPB is that there were no medicinal resolves back then outside of Rogaine which required a prescription. Enough said.

Back to the patient. The best thing that this patient can do is to go to several surgeons highly skilled in both FUE "and" strip methods, and also have extensive experience utilizing both methods in repair. Here's why. Some of his plugs, if not alot of them, have the potential of being thinned out with isolated extractions. Surgeons very skilled can potentially remove some of the FUs within the plug with low transection and then take those grafts and place them elsewhere. This can help to decrease the amount that the surgeon may deem removed by incision vs extraction especially if the plug is more compact pushing the FUs within it tighter togethor. Many times they have to be cut out and then microscopically dissected into grafts. Some past open donor patients had their plugs sink into the scalp creating a more cratering effect and even sometimes discoloration. So again, it's the doc's call on which approach will be used on each individual plug. The physical inspection will also allow the docs to assess how extensive the scarring is, remaining blood flow, laxity to determine how much of the donor scarring can be removed, how much remaining terminal hair could be extracted from areas of the scalp that a strip excision could not. Now unless I'm wrong, there appears to also be some ridging and even cobblestoning, especially in the donor area. Feel free to correct me.

Then I think it's a good idea for this patient to get estimates in approximity of grafts that could still be harvested including the ones from the existing plugs so nothing is wasted. Then assess exactly where the placement of those grafts would provide him the best possible aesthetic result. In other words bring the entire picture into reality so the patient can make an intelligent decision realizing that the goal at this stage would be to produce as naturally thinning look as possible. This is where potentially BH can also come into play with grafts placed behind the hairline and between the exisitng hair including the thinned out plugs. And even if this patient lacks BH which I doubt or maybe has financial restrictions, I still think he has enough terminal hair left to make enough change to soften the appearance to at least a point of freedom.

Now he will need to also assess and decide if the plugs in the crown will be removed and redistributed to an area that will give him more visual advantage. IMO, the area is too large to fill in with additional and obviously limited remaining donor. But this again is where the goals may need to be adjusted to more reality of what can be achieved considering his present limitations. The other option in the crown is to thin the remaining plugs with extractions and then add some BH grafts to produce a thinning look as long as the patient knows the look would be very thin and may help to hide any visible scarring which could be more of an issue if the plugs are removed from the crown.

Finally, possibly consider dyeing the hair to a lighter shade. He has a medium color contrast so any lightening will narrow it and help with the visuals especially at close range. You don't have to change the color extreme, any lightening will help even if it is subtle. You can also stage out your hair lightening with time. Go to a good stylist who is good at coloring and you would be surpised at how natural they can make it look over time. Don't try coloring your hair yourself from a kit. Go to the pros.

I sincerely hope some of this was helpful and I wish you the very best in your quest of repair research and getting this resolved once and for all so you can get on with your life. Take care.

Gillenator

I am not a doctor; all opinions shared are not medical advice but my own views. Contributing Physicians: Dr. Glenn Charles, Dr. Jim DeYarman, Dr. Paul Rose, Dr. Ron Shapiro, Dr. Christian Bisanga, Drs. Bob True & Bob Dorin

  

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helpmeoutSat Sep-30-06 01:49 AM
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#32. "RE: The fundamental problem"
In response to Reply # 28


          

Let me get this straight. The plugs were removed by a strip ?

  

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johnpSat Sep-30-06 09:32 PM
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#39. "The cost ?"
In response to Reply # 32


          

How much does a repair job like this cost ?

  

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youngmanSun Oct-01-06 12:21 AM
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#42. "Fantastic Work"
In response to Reply # 39


          

I would first like to give my congrats to the Dr. and the Pateint. It looks amazing and I am sure you are feeling like a new person.
As for all this about posting and advertising for Doctors. It is my belive that this site is here to eductae all and improve the hair transplant industry world wide. I had work done by Dr. Arvind and it was the first good transplant I had. Of course I am going to talk good about him and recommened him. This is what X-Patients should do. I was treated very well by Dr. A and his staff and because of that i would recommend him to anyone any day. All I am trying to say as a group (everyone on this site) our main goal should be to help X, future, and current patients on their road to restoring a normal life, not take sides and bash Doctors

3 strip procedures
1st..awful waste of 8 thousand...
2nd...MHR..awful results
3rd...Dr. Arvind...Great Results going back again

  

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finallyfreeSun Oct-01-06 05:32 PM
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#53. "The golden age of HT"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

Instead of fighting amongst ourselves, its important to realize that just as the plugs was the dark ages of transplants, today is the dawn of the golden age.
Today, a man can go get a strip (with triclosure), fue from around the strip and robust BHT to get full restoration we all desire.
And this can happen in a single week, one visit. Imagine almost everyone can get 7000-8000 grafts in a single shot.

No more 1000 grafts a year per strip.

9000 grafts till now. All by Dr. A .
They include strip FUHT, FUE, body hair grafts and facial hair grafts.
Hoping to accomplish full hair restoration.
http://hairsite.com/serendipity/authors/64-Finallyfree/P5.html

  

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SkywalkerMon Oct-02-06 11:23 AM
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#82. "RE: The Bronze age of HT"
In response to Reply # 53


          

Imagine almost everyone can get 7000-8000 grafts in a single shot.


This is just factually inaccurate.

I agree it is no longer the Stone Age, but the Golden Age? What are you smoking and can I have some

______________________________________________________________________________________

If you disagree with my opinion I do not mind - I am not paid to post here and I am not a missionary.

  

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EdMon Oct-02-06 12:56 PM
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#83. "RE: The Bronze age of HT"
In response to Reply # 82
Mon Oct-02-06 01:01 PM by Ed

          

Hello fellow passengers

This is the funniest thread on any hair forum that I have come cross , ever !!!




whiskers ? : :D ha ha ha


For the record , once again , Dr Arvind & Dr Omar are fue innovators and H & W is a strip joint , good one too .


Jo , you are wasted in that joint ; with all due respect , marketing and promotion are not the same thing , are they now ?






  

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finallyfreeMon Oct-02-06 01:25 PM
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#84. "RE: The Bronze age of HT"
In response to Reply # 82


  

          

>Imagine almost everyone can get 7000-8000 grafts in a
>single shot.
>

>
>This is just factually inaccurate.
>
>I agree it is no longer the Stone Age, but the Golden Age?
>What are you smoking and can I have some

I dont smoke. Thank you.

Lets not get into semantics. If you think its the bronze age that fine by me.

Now for the numbers. Theres nothing inaccurate about them. Even a person without exceptional laxity and density in his scalp donor can get atleast 3000-3500 grafts by a single strip. 1500-2000 fue can be taken out from around the strip the next day. Even if the person is not well endowed with body hair, he can still give 500 pubic hair grafts, 300-400 armpit grafts and 500 from the facial hair.

That all this can be done at one go and the average person can hope to get 7000+ grafts is good news. A far cry from 1000-1500 graft surgeries!

9000 grafts till now. All by Dr. A .
They include strip FUHT, FUE, body hair grafts and facial hair grafts.
Hoping to accomplish full hair restoration.
http://hairsite.com/serendipity/authors/64-Finallyfree/P5.html

  

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SkywalkerMon Oct-02-06 02:47 PM
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#85. "RE: The Bronze age of HT"
In response to Reply # 84


          


Now for the numbers. Theres nothing inaccurate about them. Even a person without exceptional laxity and density in his scalp donor can get atleast 3000-3500 grafts by a single strip. 1500-2000 fue can be taken out from around the strip the next day. Even if the person is not well endowed with body hair, he can still give 500 pubic hair grafts, 300-400 armpit grafts and 500 from the facial hair.

I do not have good hair characteristics, this is because I suffer from severe MPB, I see lots and lots of people who are as bad or worse than me. According to Dr Cole and Peter Mac (two guys who may not like each other but are certainly knowledgeable) I cannot get more than 3,000 strip grafts TOTAL - probably less. 2,000 FUE grafts after that from somebody with severe MPB and sub-standard density? I have never seen it. As far as pubic hair and facial hair, well, aside from the fact that facial hair so far is very rare and pubic hair may look unnatural - the more important question is will it grow at all? It seems that sometimes it does and sometimes it doesn't, but the probability is that BHT grafts will not give the coverage of scalp grafts even if it does grow.

Ironically the Golden age of HT's will be when HM finally comes along, because when it does then HT doctors will actually be in more demand than ever.

______________________________________________________________________________________

If you disagree with my opinion I do not mind - I am not paid to post here and I am not a missionary.

  

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finallyfreeMon Oct-02-06 04:40 PM
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#87. "RE: The Bronze age of HT"
In response to Reply # 85


  

          

>Ironically the Golden age of HT's will be when HM finally
>comes along, because when it does then HT doctors will
>actually be in more demand than ever.
>

I agree with you on that. HM will be the golden age. Maybe, even the diamond age. No question about that.
I am sorry that you have so little donor available. I hope you understand that I did not mean for situations like yours.

9000 grafts till now. All by Dr. A .
They include strip FUHT, FUE, body hair grafts and facial hair grafts.
Hoping to accomplish full hair restoration.
http://hairsite.com/serendipity/authors/64-Finallyfree/P5.html

  

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TheFittestTue Oct-03-06 12:24 PM
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#92. "Bah. HT in perpetual *TIN* age. Thin and stuck-on. n/t"
In response to Reply # 87


          

n/t

  

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HairSiteWed Oct-04-06 04:04 AM
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#93. "Jotronic"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

Jotronic:

Drs. Hasson and Wong are great surgeons. You don't need to stomp on other clinics to validate H&W's status.

Every post by a clinic representative is in itself an advertisement or endorsement of some sort. As long as it is not overly aggressive, most forum members seem to have no problem with that. After all, people can see for themselves who produces consistent results and who doesn't.

As for soliciting forum opinions on pending cases, Dr. Arvind's goal is to facilitate discussions rather than, as you so gently suggested, asking for instructions.

It's in our best interest that doctors participate in the forum. We become better by keeping an open mind, not by snobbing our peers. People should challenge a doctor's participation in the forum based on technical merits rather than clever innuendos. Dr. Woods is one who is not shy about challenging Dr. Arvind on various aspects of hair transplant. It's all done in good faith. We all stand to benefit.

Sorry. I honestly do not wish to be part of the drama. But sometimes these words ought to be heard.


HairSite.com
email: hairsite@aol.com
========================
Disclaimer: I am NOT a doctor. Please do not consider anything you read from this website or any of the forums as medical advice.

  

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scientist8046Wed Oct-04-06 04:22 AM
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#94. "RE: Jotronic"
In response to Reply # 93


          

well said

s

www.bodyhairtransplant.blogspot.com

http://www.youtube.com/metedude

  

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boomboomWed Oct-04-06 05:47 AM
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#95. "RE: Jotronic"
In response to Reply # 94
Wed Oct-04-06 05:52 AM by boomboom

          

Yes, well said hairsite. H&W is a great clinic and does great work. BUT I don't like feeling sympathy and worrying about the guy with the bad plugs...only to find out everything was fine.

  

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